Talk:Shiv (weapon)

Initial posts

what about shiv as a verb. to shiv somone? just wondering. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.135.1.91 (talk) 17:39, 15 April 2008 (UTC) - added photo Dylan Mather 22:25, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

"The character Richard B. Riddick in the films Pitch Black and The Chronicles of Riddick coined the term "shiv-happy"." Is this line needed? -Drhaggis 01:14, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think it's a nice bit of trivia. Maybe put it under a Trivia heading? Though an article this short with a trivia heading would look strange...Drago 22:12, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

I say leave it, it's an interesting bit of info- anonymous

I agree, since the topic isn't that popular, it's nice, and educational to have this bit of info in Shiv (weapon). LebanonChild 15:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

"metal shank of a prison-issued boot" - I looked up shank in the dictionary (m-w) and found "the narrow part of the sole of a shoe beneath the instep". I'm still a little unclear about where or why there would be metal there (I assume for rigidity, but, that's just a guess). If anyone's got some info on that, making a page Shank (Sole) or Shank (Shoe) could be good.

Not necessarily improvised

I checked some online sources (m-w.com, about.com, dictionary.com), and they support my understanding that "shiv" is slang for a knife. I agree that it is commonly used to refer to improvised weapons, but it does not mean the same thing as "shank," an improvised stabbing/cutting weapon. All shanks, that is, are shivs, but not all shivs are shanks.

I first came across the term "shiv" in the video game "Shamus," back in the early 1980's. I looked it up in a dictionary, the big paper kind, and it's a slang term for a knife, specifically a knife as a weapon. It's a Raymond Chandler/film-noir kind of word, like calling a gun a "heater."

http://www.videogamehouse.net/cartss.html#Shamus

Assassination?

The article originally said "Shanking is a popular prison assassination method." The term "assassination" usually refers to important people, especially leaders and other government officials. I changed the sentence to read "Many people have been killed by attackers using shanks while serving time in prison." I think this conveys the right idea.

Actually, "assassination" means murder for political reason. It doesn't matter how important the victim is ( to everyone but the assaliant - to whom the victim is obvsiouly very important ). DigitalEnthusiast 18:21, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you."Moving in with the shiv" , "Shiv is closing on him" and such sentences have been used in the mini series "The Prison" 3part storyline in Batman:Shadow of the Bat" comics by DC;where the characters attributed with speaking/narrators are all criminals inside the prison where Batman goes in disguise of a new inmate to investigate a series of murders unaccountable for the suspects have the alibi of being inside the prison during the time the murders took place.Hence,"Killing" is more precise for "Shiv" used as a weapon by inmates of a prison.asydwaters 17:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

About the Chopper reference........

in the last paragraph the writer has mentioned chopper stabbing somebody to death in the movie, then wrote "Though it's debatable that this ever happened." well, it didn't happen. the man getting killed, Keith Faure A.K.A Keithy George is alive and kicking, in the past month he has been given a life sentence for carrying out a hit. just thought i'd clear that up —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.164.147.223 (talk • contribs)

This is the case, and there's even a wiki link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Faure which mentions it.

might I also add that Read has made reference in one book to the use of pliers. There's a couple of ways they coudl be used, but the one relevant to this section is that they were 'turned around' and likely with the rubber sleeve 'grips' removed or cut/retracted. Basically it was held by the jaw area of the pliers and became a double shiv of sorts

Drifting meaning of slangy pop-cultural terms

Look up "shiv" and "shank" in a dictionary (go ahead, I'll wait...) and you'll see that the words don't (originally) mean quite what Wikipedia currently says. They are slangy pop-culture terms to begin with, and it's certainly nothing to get worked up (or shivved, or shanked) about, but in any case, here is what the words were supposed to mean before they became such darlings of the modern pop-culture movie/TV prison show/gamer set:

Shiv means a knife as a weapon; it's a slang term. It could be anything you'd stab and/or cut somebody with; a stiletto, a dagger, a chef's knife, or, not ideally, a sharpened toothbrush.

Shank can mean a lot things; basically, it means something stiff and straight, like a shaft, a haft, or a stem. When it refers to a weapon, it is a slang term for an improvised knife; or for any improvised stabbing or slashing weapon. It usually refers to something that's been prepared or assembled painstakingly from unlikely materials, as opposed to, say, a shard of glass that happens to be handy after you get tossed into a mirror in a barfight. Watch your fingers! Yes, the idea is that the "original shank" was a sharpened shank from a prison-issue shoe or boot; but the meaning is more broad than this.

Contributors seem to think that shiv means "shank" and shank is a specific type of "shiv." It's important, I guess, for everyone to know what 95% of the people who use these terms mean by them, but it's noteworthy (apparently, but maybe only to me) to...note...that the dictionaries of the world say something else.

So...odds are that when you hear someone saying shiv, he means "shank"; remember that when you are walking into the public showers, if it's any comfort to you. And if a character from a Raymond Chandler short-story tells you to bring a shiv with you when you meet him in the alley, don't be surprised if he's dissapointed when you show up with something you fashioned out of a T-square and some duct tape.

I think there's also different useage in different English-speaking countries. The article is vague about this, I'd be interested to know more. Gymnophoria (talk) 12:12, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Shank V. Shiv

Shiv is a knife, however according to

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Shank

A "shank" has nothing to do with the shiv, but its a leg, nothing about a knife

1. Anatomy. the part of the lower limb in humans between the knee and the ankle; leg. 2. a corresponding or analogous part in certain animals. 3. the lower limb in humans, including both the leg and the thigh. 4. a cut of meat from the top part of the front (foreshank) or back (hind shank) leg of an animal. 5. a narrow part of various devices, as a tool or bolt, connecting the end by which the object is held or moved with the end that acts upon another object. 6. a straight, usually narrow, shaftlike part of various objects connecting two more important or complex parts, as the stem of a pipe. 7. a knob, small projection, or end of a device for attaching to another object, as a small knob on the back of a solid button, or the end of a drill for gripping in a shaft. 8. the long, straight part of an anchor connecting the crown and the ring. 9. the straight part of a fishhook away from the bent part or prong. 10. Music. crook1 (def. 8). 11. Informal. a. the early part of a period of time: It was just the shank of the evening when the party began. b. the latter part of a period of time: They didn't get started until the shank of the morning. 12. the narrow part of the sole of a shoe, lying beneath the instep. 13. shankpiece. 14. Printing. the body of a type, between the shoulder and the foot. 15. Golf. a shot veering sharply to the right after being hit with the base of a club shaft. 16. the part of a phonograph stylus or needle on which the diamond or sapphire tip is mounted. 17. Jewelry. the part of a ring that surrounds the finger; hoop. –verb (used with object) 18. Golf. to hit (a golf ball) with the base of the shaft of a club just above the club head, causing the ball to go off sharply to the right. –verb (used without object) 19. Chiefly Scot. to travel on foot. Compare shanks' mare.

It does, however say

The part of a tool, such as a drill, that connects the functioning head to the handle.

Could be part of the blade? --Gen. S.T. Shrink *^{Get to the bunker}* 23:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

• "Shank" in the way that we're using it here is a slang term, you won't find the definition you're looking for in the dictionary, just like you won't find under the definition of "heater" a slang reference to a pistol. Shank, in one of its proper uses, is indeed a leg and thigh. This is why we hear phrases such as "a shank of lamb" referring to a lamb dish. But your definition listing does answer something which there seems to have been some debate about before I got here.

"12. the narrow part of the sole of a shoe, lying beneath the instep." So, as it seems, shanks are indeed parts of shoes. Whether or not the term is the root of the "shank" we know because prison inmates sharpened metal shanks and used them as weapons (as is the fact flagged as lacking a citation in the text of the article) I do not know. 24.15.197.87 (talk) 22:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• • I served three years in a Kentucky prison and I never heard it referred to as a shiv. It was always called a shank. Perhaps the term used varies depending on he region the country?76.177.71.129 (talk) 07:15, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Fairly certain this is a UK English/US English split. As per wikipedia guidelines, when it's not clear which should be used then the status quo should remain in place. --86.148.56.202 (talk) 17:18, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

In Canadian prisons any improvised blade is known as either a "shank" OR a "shiv". Both terms are used and both mean the same thing. -- œ^™ 21:41, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

The book In Cold Blood, by Truman Capote, uses the word "shiv" for the makeshift weapon the captured killer "Dick" hid in his cell. However, the sheriff found and confiscated it before Dick could use it. Most if not all of the action took place in the midwestern united states, so that indicates shiv is used, possibly along with shank, in the usa.There's no inline citation for the claim in the article that shank is used in usa prisons.76.218.104.120 (talk) 04:53, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

As I USian, my understanding was that "shiv" is a noun (the prison knife) and "shank" is a verb (stabbing someone with a shiv). --156.154.61.54 (talk) 21:43, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

The OP's link http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Shank now includes "7 Slang. shiv (def. 2)." Shiv links to https://www.dictionary.com/browse/shiv that says "1 a knife, ... 2 Also called shank . an improvised or homemade weapon for cutting ....". Other dictionaries also say shank can be a noun The Cambridge Dictionary, Merriam-Webster and Lexico. That means that it is an accepted use and not incorrect to call a makeshift knife a "shank", but that "shank" can also be a verb. Sjö (talk) 20:13, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Etymology of "shank"

Regarding the recent removal of the contentious(??) line: ...from the metal shanks of prison-issued boots... as being the origin of the term, I tried to track down a reference. Google Books turned up what seemed like a direct hit but I'm suspicious because of the similarity in wording and the fact that the book was published in 2010 and that text has been in the article since 2007, which leads me to believe that the author of that book, when doing his research took this information from this article, although he did not credit Wikipedia for it so I can't be sure. However Google Books also turned up another interesting result from the Atlantic Reporter in 2008: ...attempted to stab him with a shank constructed from the metal arch support of an inmate-issued shoe. While this certainly verifies that shanks can come from prison-issued boots it doesn't verify that that is the origin of the term. So, should we use the Atlantic Reporter as a source or wait for someone with some more information can come forward? -- œ^™ 22:20, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I also believe the term "shank"(that describes an improvised prison weapon) was born from the metal shank of a boot. Obviously boots are not only issued in prison but they are sometimes made there as well. This gives prisoners access to this metal material that is commonly known as a boot shank already. I do not know where or how to validate that information either. But I will try. I'm going to look in the book "Blood on The Razor Wire" by Chad Mark's. I believe I heard about this topic briefly on his YouTube channel (with the same name) or i possibly read about and debated this topic in the comments to one of the videos posted on Chad Mark's 'BOTRW' prison genre YouTube channel. I wish everyone else some good luck. Because men make outrageous efforts to ensure that certain things that go on in prisons, can never be verified. WootSpaGoot (talk) 17:43, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Image

Hey, this image doesn't show shivs, it shows handcrafted knives in the process of being made, when different materials have been glued together before shaping the handle, more like pieces of art than improvised stabbing implements. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.80.135.26 (talk) 14:30, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Shivs ARE handcrafted knives, and the handles do look completed, the tape around the blades is a home-made sheath. This image most definitely does show stabbing implements, ie. shivs, and they are as 'finished' as they're going to get. -- œ^™ 22:15, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

No, these are NOT shivs. These are Scandinavian style knives in production and are NOT finished items. The handles don't lookd remotely completed, and they are not. The tape on the blade is there to provide protection while the handle is worked into shape. This kind of item is ultimately a product of high craftsmanship and a long-standing tradtion in the northern countries. Inappropriate image. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.206.191 (talk) 07:22, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I concur, these are clearly commercially manufactured knives---note the properly ground blades---these ARE NOT shanks, shivs, chibs or any such. Image deleted 'cause it's got fuck-all to do with the topic.

Well to be technical about it, "any sharp or pointed implement used as a knife-like weapon" can be called a shiv. So yes, it does have all-fuck to do with the topic. -- œ^™ 10:48, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone else thinks that the image of a knife "confiscated from a prison in south africa" looks suspicious. It looks like it came from a propaganda campaign, with the "made in R.S.A." thing on the bottom. Melquiades Babilonia (talk) 05:13, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

It looks great to me. But what does R.S.A. abbreviate? Republic of South Africa? Should this be noted to the reader? -- AstroU (talk) 20:58, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

New NEWS today, for future editing

This is all over the news with notable sources, and the word 'SHANK'.

Headline-1: Knife Found In Aaron Hernandez’s Prison Cell

• http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/12/04/knife-found-in-aaron-hernandezs-prison-cell/

QUOTE: "According to ESPN, guards found a prison-made shank during a shakedown when checking Hernandez’s cell. There is no word yet on any possible punishment. This is not the first incident Hernandez has had since being incarcerated. In 2014 he was indicted in an alleged jail assault after getting in an altercation with another inmate. The former NFL-er is scheduled to go to another trial for a 2012 double murder case in Boston in January." -- AstroU (talk) 21:03, 5 December 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future editing.

Romani origin

The article and the dictionary in the reference say that the word might come from Chivomengro but this is incorrect as the ending +engro means a person who has an interest or trade. An example of this is the surname Petulengro with petul meaning horseshoe and +engro added meaning a farrier someone who makes and attaches horseshoes. The word for knife is probably Chivom and the +engro is added in error. RichardBond (talk) 02:46, 6 September 2021 (UTC)